Interview

Excerpts of an interview with Nepali Congress President and leader of the seven-party alliance Girija Prasad Koirala:  Q. How do you expect next week's movement to go? Girija Prasad Koirala: The outline for the movement has already been drawn. Accordingly, all the seven parties have vowed to take the movement to its climax. This movement is going to be different from all the ones before. Our movement will be certainly peaceful. There have been attempts to link our movement with the Maoists' strike but it is the continuation of our three-year-long agitation. I take no notice of how others link the continuation of our movement. It is clear that we are not going with the Maoists. We are prepared to lead the movement peacefully on our own. We will take this movement as the people's movement. This movement is neither for an individual nor for a party; it is for the welfare of all Nepalese, to restore their rights that have been snatched from them. Therefore, all the people, whether from villages or from cities, they are agitated. We need to coordinate it and move ahead united. Q: Your movement has been patchy, often slumping and losing momentum over the last three years. How will it differ this time? Koirala: I have always told the leaders of all parties that our main focus should be on giving continuity to the movement. There have been highs and lows. But now we have concluded not to stop the movement under any circumstances. Q: First you decided for a showdown in the capital but immediately you changed the decision to make a nationwide movement. Why? Koirala: It is difficult to understand the movement and this is our strategy as well. The movement will take place in the districts too, but will be focussed in the capital. Because the international community's eyes are on the capital, everyone's attention is drawn here. We have decided to carry out a decentralized movement nationwide with the main focus in the capital. Q: But dispersing it to the districts will have no effect in Kathmandu, right? Koirala: People who can make it (to Kathmandu) will join the movement here and the rest will continue their movements in their respective districts. Q: When you planned for the capital-centric movement, why did you announce the nationwide strike? Will this not make it difficult for the people planning to come to Kathmandu? Koirala:  It is not that there will be no showdown during the strike. The strike will rather include all the people in the movement. It will be a genuine "people's movement" then. Q: How can people come to Kathmandu with a three-day-long bandh? Koirala: The cadres will have already arrived by then. Many others will still be coming and some of them can come even after the strike is over. There will be no shortage of people. Q: How many cadres do you expect to bring in? Koirala: That cannot be counted. But it will be massive. With all the professional organizations joining in, its scope will be huge. Q: You reached yet another agreement with the Maoists prior to the movement. How are your relations with them now? Koirala: Many people have had a lot to say about the 12-point seven parties-Maoist pact. Some had reservations too. But we held talks with the Maoists, and the international community, adhering to our basic ideals. Our basic ideal is to put an end to the authoritarian rule, restore peace and complete democracy for a free, sovereign and prosperous Nepal. I have made these points clear to the Chinese, Americans and others. The 12-point pact is included within this ideal of ours. They even asked me if I was leaving behind BP's policy of national reconciliation. If you study (the understanding) well, even that policy is included in it. BP's reconciliation was between the King and the people as there was no third party like today's Maoists involved. But we have a third power now. That’s why my concern is reconciliation between all the three sides.Another personal view of mine is that we should not distort history's continuity, be it individual or institutional. If I have a bad name but my work is good, then it is the work and not the name that is evaluated. It is history which identifies characters. If history is erased so are our identities. Nepali congress has a history and it is from that history we have our identity. That’s why we should keep the history, and with it identity, intact.

Q: Does protecting history mean protecting the monarchy as well? Koirala: We have not jumped to republicanism as yet. We have reached as far as ceremonial monarchy. That is complete democracy. The Nepali Congress has not reached republicanism but the general mood in the nation definitely has. The BBC once asked me what 'complete democracy' meant. I told them that the Queen (UK) neither intervenes in the parliament nor in the daily state affairs. I told them that that was the status of a ceremonial monarch. Continuity of history means moving on by the current constitution. Even if we go to a constituent assembly, we have to move through this constitution. It will give continuity to both history and identity. Our movement will be complete and the king, too, will not be left with any rights. Q: Even with the king's autocratic modus operandi and the persistent threats from some ministers, your views haven't changed? Koirala: This is not a one-day affair. I may not be alive till then, but that day is bound to come. Everybody talks about (keeping) the king now, I might do it too. But such an environment has already been created that even if I am not there, nobody can stop it. The seed for complete democracy has already been sown. It's a different thing if the king changes everything in time, otherwise history will be made this way.  Q. You face two different schools of thought within your own party- one is against the understanding with the Maoists, the other advocates republicanism, right? Koirala: The international community including America, too, says we should not move ahead with the Maoists, saying the Maoists cannot be trusted. We are democratic parties. Democratic parties have responsibilities. That responsibility is to bring the undemocratic forces into the democratic-constitutional fold. It is our responsibility and duty. Ok, let's assume for a while that I will fail; I may be unsuccessful but the country will not, only Girija Prasad will fail. But if I become successful, a small underdeveloped country that perhaps doesn't enjoy much importance in the world map will set an example for the international community. And an example for the terrorists across the world that the problem can be resolved only through dialogue. Consider this as my political gamble. Q: Incidentally, the US ambassador has been warning that the Maoists might take total control with the aid of the movement. What do you say? Koirala: In order to prevent that from happening, I have always wanted to bring them into the democratic framework. America and all the others have their contradictions here. They say that there is no military solution and we need to find a political solution but why do they fear when we try to bring the Maoists closer to the political solution? I may fail when a responsible political party attempts to bring the Maoists in the political mainstream but the nation will definitely not fail. Q: You might have talked about abandoning and managing the arms with Prachanda. Did you have any agreements? Koirala: We need a third party to assist in this regard. I do not agree that there should be a tri-polar talk (seven parties, Maoists and the king) regarding the management of the arms. I have always told the Maoists that I never can trust guns; whether they belong to the Maoists or the king. Many incidents have occurred recently. I warned (the rebel leaders), "Did not the King tell you to rule jointly saying that he will jail all others. That brought a divide between you two (Prachanda and Baburam). Prachanda accused Baburam of being pro-Indian while the Baburam blamed Prachanda of being pro-palace. So how can I trust your gun? That’s why I have always told that I can never trust both guns. If you and the king joined hands what will be the condition of the democratic forces? That’s why we need a third party. You might have fears about we joining hands with the king too." Q. At what stage will that third party arrive? Koirala: In the situation of talks. It will not come in this situation. The third party will come once they (Maoists) are brought to the negotiating table. Negotiation with the Maoists will be held in the presence of the third party. What we have done so far with the Maoists is just an understanding. They should be brought into this process gradually. (Laughs) Not like the way I light my cigarette with the flash of a matchstick. Q. What will be the king's role in the negotiation to be held in the presence of a third party? Koirala: The king himself should think about his role, not me. I can talk about my role; the king must relinquish his rights. He should be ready to become a ceremonial king.    Q. The Maoists are ready to keep a ceremonial king? Koirala: Look, I don’t want to say everything. It may spoil the broth. You don’t ask me more than this. I am not speaking just like that (but) with self-confidence. I am speaking with the confidence which I developed after meeting them. After (Prachanda’s interview in) Kantipur, Indian (newspaper) Hindu and BBC TV, (people?) came to me saying (Prachanda) spoke in this way. I don’t want to comment on what Prachanda said in those interviews. I told them to look at what I speak outside and what I say here and now. We speak outside to encourage our cadres. Their (Maoists') cadres have guns in their hands; therefore they speak to encourage their cadres. Q. Why did you refuse to issue a joint press statement when the seven parties reached the second understanding with the Maoists? Koirala: It was me who did not agree to issue a joint statement. I had told them that I would not do this in any case. I told Prachanda that I could not sign a joint statement when I do not trust both guns. On the last day as we were having a discussion with Sher Bahadur Deubas (other SPA leaders) we received a phone call from them (Maoists). I said this (joint statement) is not possible. They said OK. They know why I said so. We should not pick at this anymore; what is in the forming will be spoilt. Q. CPN-UML General Secretary Madhav Kumar Nepal has been detained and shifted from house arrest to police custody. It is said, the government is attempting to bring a split in the SPA. What is your opinion? Koirala: Say the king, why do you say the government? I don’t accept that this is a government. The king has been trying (to cause a divide) from the beginning. He has been doing this. But the SPA won’t be deterred. We should move based on trust. They said many things to me about Sher Bahadur Deuba. That doesn't work; we have to trust. If you do not trust (me) and think that this cup of tea is poisoned, you will not drink it. If you walk around with such suspicion in mind, you cannot drink even water anywhere. Our society works on the basis of trust. Everyone makes a mistake once; once he confesses that he will not repeat it, we should believe him. It's not that we did not make mistakes; we have conceded our mistakes. Others too have conceded their mistakes. Therefore, we are not going to repeat those mistakes, nor will others. Q. What kind of mistakes do you think did the Nepali Congress make? Koirala: It’s after we formed the government. Democracy had just arrived. I also didn’t know what democracy was. I did not know how the parliamentary system works under a constitutional monarchy. I became the Prime Minister in an unexpected manner. I look at the secretaries, and they think new people are in the government. I doubt them and they doubt me. I thought an interaction might help. For that, I thought it would be better to begin from the top level. I called the king from my office; he said "ok." I went (to the palace) said to the King, “Your Majesty, I don’t know how both the constitutional monarchy and parliamentary system work together. Your Majesty has to point out when I make a mistake.” The King said, “I also don’t know how a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary system work out, you point out when I make a mistake.”  Thus began the interaction at the top level. Confidence-building began from there. Based on that confidence, things started moving with the secretaries too. You make many mistakes even while running the house. But we keep on learning. BP Koirala used to say that one couldn't learn swimming without diving into the river. Mistakes do take place, but we move forward by correcting them. This forms the very basis of democracy. Q. They say the people do believe in the multi-party system but one reason why they haven't participated in the seven-party movement is because of the nepotism, favouritism and corruption by the Congress and other parties? Koirala: This question has now become old. Look at the king (King's rule)- isn't there nepotism and favouritism? Isn't there corruption? Nothing is in order, (but) who is saying anything? Q. Will the Congress do the same after forming the government again? Koirala: The Nepali Congress has made some mistakes. I won't say only the Congress; all (parties) have done. Maybe you too have kept your near and dear ones in your newspaper! Q. We haven't. Koirala: I know; everybody does that. That is a mistake. Once this is accepted, it is not repeated. All political parties have conceded this. Q. How was the role of the palace? Koirala: The former king knew something about statesmanship; the way he spoke and his behaviour were different. This king is very ambitious. I have told him- "Your Majesty's ambition is high, credibility is low. The ambition should be lowered and the credibility raised." The country is in such a situation because the king tried to make a fast jump. The economy has weakened to the extent that the Nepal Rastra Bank Governor has started saying that the revenue collected is not enough even to meet the general expenditure. Whether it was while appointing members to the National Assembly or forming the Armed Police Force (the king's role was not satisfactory). The king also hesitated to mobilise the army (against the Maoists); the army too didn't like it. All this became clearer after this king came. Actually I should have made it public from the Tudikhel that the army did not oblige when I wanted to mobilise it. But I didn't do so. This was a great mistake on my part, a blunder. Q. Talking about the international community, how have you taken China's State Councillor's visit? Koirala: There has been a change in China's (Nepal) policy. The earlier policy that this is Nepal's internal matter no more exists. I used to tell them (Chinese authorities) that you are our neighbours and cannot shy away by saying so. I had told them that a neighbour has to say something at such times, has to raise the issue of reconciliation. I told them about my personal opinion that this very constitution should be reactivated for national reconciliation. He (Chinese State Councillor) said the same thing. I even told him that it was BP (Koirala) who laid the foundations of China-Nepal friendship. Q. How do you see the American role? Koirala: What should I say about America's stance? I had told the Ambassador (Moriarty) that you are trying to give the king a safety valve. Q. You keep saying informally that we are about to fall in the global strategy. Won't you make it clear? Koirala: If you look at the international situation, there is polarisation taking place. Polarisation for international power balance. If that polarisation takes place successfully, the world will be balanced, if not there will be instability. If you talk about nature, Tsunami and earthquakes came for natural balance. A similar polarisation does take place in politics too. And if we are to become part of world politics while such a polarisation is taking place, it will dump us in chaos. I told this to the Americans and others. I have been telling them not to make us a part (of polarisation) and that we are a small country. Q. Do you mean that America is trying to use Nepal, situated between two powerful countries India and China? Koirala: I cannot say that. What I feel is Nepal will not exist should it become a part of that strategy. We should be careful about that; the king, too, should think about it. Q. The king is expected to announce the general elections on the occasion of the Nepali New Year 2063 BS. What will be your reaction? Koirala: For now, I can only put forward my personal opinion. (Such an announcement) will be a big accident. We have to boycott it. If we accept the elections, it will be like giving legitimacy to the king's rule. We will have to boycott (the general elections) the way we boycotted the municipal polls. What our party and the seven-party alliance say may be different; this is my personal thinking. Q. You always say "my party", "the seven parties". Aren't you under pressure from the polarisation within your own party? Koirala: Maybe a polarisation is taking place even among the journalists. This happens in the parties as well. It is natural in democracy. It happens in the seven parties too, but it's my job not to let it happen in the seven parties. So that the international community's support is not disturbed. This effort of mine will continue. People come to me and tell me different things; I don't go by them.  Q. Some leaders within your own party are in favour of unity with the king, not with the Maoists, right? Koirala: I don't see any room for reconciliation with the king. At least talks are going on to bring the Maoists (to the mainstream). They at least declared a unilateral ceasefire for four months. I don't understand why everybody is taking the 12-point understanding in such a big manner. This is just a beginning. We should move ahead slowly. Q. Is that easy? The international community led by America pressured you not to move ahead, no? Koirala: It is difficult. I am not discouraged. I don't want to get stuck because someone made it difficult for me. I want to tread along my path. I won't be deviated. It's not that the problem will be solved if you minus the Maoists and hold talks with the king; lasting peace is possible only by bringing them (Maoists) to the mainstream. Q. What about your party's future leadership? Koirala: We should move ahead united. I cannot make somebody the leader. Such a difficult time is the right time to become a leader. But only this difficult situation will tell as to who emerges as the leader. Q. Many have pinned their hopes on you for the unity between the two Congress parties. What will you do? Koirala: I talked about the unification. I haven't said I won't do this. Sher Bahadur ji (Sher Bahadur Deuba) had come. What we considered was that both our parties have concluded their general conventions. Our job is to ease the difficulties. Lets move ahead completely united for the movement. Hearts will meet; unification will be easier for both.